Hello all. I am trying to identify the kilt worn by this man circa 1935

[yarmouth1]

Hello all. I am trying to identify the kilt worn by this man circa 1935. Anyone know what clan he belonged to and if this is purely civilian. Thank you!

[Calgacus]

Hi yarmouth, the gent in your photo is not a civilian, his manner of dress is entirely military. I'm sure others here will be able to identify which regiment he was in.

[figheadair]

Extracting tartans from B&W photographs is always tricky but working on the assumption that this chap was indeed military then the options are greatly reduced. The wide pale stripe points towards the tartan being MacKenzie (Seaforth Highlanders), Lamont (Liverpool Scottish) or Gordon (Gordon Highlanders). These of course are British regiments and if he was elsewhere then a local/National regiment would also need to be factored in.

The sporran and plaid brooch may help others refine the choice.

[Jock Scot]

I agree Peter, but I also note that there are no helpful collar dogs present, which might give a clue in the search, by the very fact that they appear to be absent?

[figheadair]

Well spotted Jock. He also 'appears' not to be wearing a sgian dubh. I'm also not sure whether there's a kilt pin or whether that's a bit of bicycle or both.

[OC Richard]

I am quite sure the man is civilian.

We have to keep in mind that civilian pipe bands oftentimes wore identical clothing to military pipe bands, even to the point of the doublets, belts, etc being made by the same firms for military and civilian use alike.

For example Thomas Gordon & Son made identical doublets for military and civilians, every stitch, piping, and lace precisely the same in many cases, the only difference being, with military doublets, the regimental buttons and collar badges.

This makes telling which is which, in old photographs, tricky at times, such as when the collar can't be seen.

In any case there are two strong arguments that this man is civilian 1) the doublet has no collar badges 2) the sporran has a single knob. As we know military sporrans, nearly always, either had no knobs or three knobs, pipers' sporrans usually having the latter.

Also the sporran top is the typical civilian cast thistle style, even today the most common one seen with civilian horsehair sporrans.

Yes there were a vast number of Volunteer and Territorial battalions and these sometimes wore things that the Regulars didn't, but I'll put my money on that guy being a piper in a civilian pipe band.

[WillowEstate]

Extracting tartans from B&W photographs is always tricky but working on the assumption that this chap was indeed military then the options are greatly reduced. The wide pale stripe points towards the tartan being MacKenzie (Seaforth Highlanders), Lamont (Liverpool Scottish) or Gordon (Gordon Highlanders). These of course are British regiments and if he was elsewhere then a local/National regiment would also need to be factored in.

The sporran and plaid brooch may help others refine the choice.

I agree, Peter, the image is very dark and grainy. But having blown it up to the resolution limit of my screen, I can't see any trace of a red line - adjacent white grid squares look identical, so I'm inclined to think it's more likely to be Gordon or Lamont. That said, though, red often resolves to black in old monochrome film stock.

It does look to be a kilt pin, rather than a piece of bicycle.

[Ron Abbott]

I'd tend to say civilian as well. No collar dogs....that's a big one. But also, there appears to be no badge on the right arm, no furniture on the cross belt and he doesn't appear to be wearing either a sgian dubh or a dirk (especially no dirk).

It's often difficult with old black and white photos to make out the tartan, especially Gordon as the yellow/gold stripe sometimes doesn't show up on film; however if you have a look at the hose he's wearing they seem to have two different coloured stripes.

Lamont and Gordon : - good possibilities and you could add Forbes (Liverpool Scottish) to that list.

But if the hose match the kilt, then I would suggest that Mackenzie is more likely.

[BBNC]

Civilian, I agree. I looked up the regiments listed, and there were rank insignia on the right sleeve, as well as collar devices on the military men. The only places I didn't see collar devices was on the battle dress, or fatigue jacket. They may have been subdued and hard to make out if they were there.