X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 31
  1. #1
    Join Date
    5th June 14
    Location
    Livonia, MI
    Posts
    112
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Willie Duff and the Modern Kilt-Wearer: The Ramblings of a Still-Fledgeling Kiltie

    May the rambling commence!

    While I was still building up to the purchase of the Stillwater Standard that has since given ground to a Stillwater "Heavyweight", I obviously became aware of the MacLeay portraits (as did many of us). Most of it didn't interest me too horribly much , except for a particular gentlemen: Willie Duff. Everyone else in the portraits looks like they made a real effort to press, shine, brush, and starch their clothes for the portrait... except for him. Consequently, he is the only one who a casual observer would never mistake for anything but a man in his daily attire. He does many things "wrong": Mixing formalities (diced hose with otherwise uber-casual attire in the same era when mere solid hose were worn with smart daywear), Jacket "too long" (I have Saxon jackets that are shorter), kilt rumpled and faded, and (most obviously) no sporran. Despite his utterly unremarkable appearance, something still intrigued me about his dress, even though I personally favor a much sharper turnout.

    I recently realized: when's the last time you saw someone going out and about with all of their attire looking like they just stepped out of a menswear catalogue? Even at typically dressy events, there is a degree of "sloppiness" to what is, in reality, worn: Shoes duller than they could be, trouser crease not knife-sharp, coat somewhat rumpled, etc, etc. On the rare occasion someone dresses 100% perfectly outside of military/police dress uniforms, it tends to look affected and "uniform-ish". I put two and two together and thought that perhaps the tendency towards great neatness has influenced public perception of Highland Attire.

    Today, I set out to test this (albeit not very scientifically). As I donned the kilt after returning home from work, I did not take the usual due diligence to ensure that my attire was in perfect order. The kilt was a bit rumpled, the hose not precisely even, and my overall appearance somewhat less than perfect. For reference, I was wearing a Black Watch SWK Heavyweight, a grey tweed vest, a charcoal Aran cardigan with a wrist-length hem, a white shirt with red tie, bottle green hose, and ghillie brogues with short laces (my other shoes all needed a coat of polish)

    The public's reaction?

    None. None of the usual comments about being all dressed up (Although the exact same combination of items had garnered this response in the past), not a soul asking about my prowess on the pipes (which I have no desire to play, and would probably have little prowess on), and not so much as a turned head, a pair of pursed lips, or any look other than one of neutrality. Not saying that Willie Duff gave a hoot about how well he was or wasn't dressed or how future kilt-wearers would see him, but his borderline haggard dress may offer us some wisdom on how to change minds about the place of the kilt... just wear the bloody thing! It's not a "special occasions only" item, and not even a "dressed-up only" item... It's perfectly acceptable daily attire, and if that shows in a few rumpled pleats or a slightly wrinkled vest, so be it... as long as you don't make a fool of yourself or dress in a disrespectful manner.
    Last edited by Livonian; 13th November 14 at 05:39 AM.

  2. The Following 8 Users say 'Aye' to Livonian For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Join Date
    13th May 14
    Location
    100-Mile House, BC
    Posts
    60
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Livonian View Post
    ... but his borderline haggard dress may offer us some wisdom on how to change minds about the place of the kilt... just wear the boody thing!
    Thank you for this post ... However, I draw your attention to the word bolded above. Did you mean "bloody"? I googled boody and the meaning I found did not seem to be appropriate for this paragraph....

  4. #3
    Join Date
    11th September 14
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    139
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Livonian View Post
    It's perfectly acceptable daily attire, and if that shows in a few rumpled pleats or a slightly wrinkled vest, so be it...
    You won't get much argument from peeps here. In fact can go even more casual and still look smart - this website is full of images of leather jackets, army pullovers, and the like that really work with kilts.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    6th July 07
    Location
    The Highlands,Scotland.
    Posts
    15,542
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Gosh where do I start? I cannot fault your observations or conclusions though. Well done.

    I think many forget that formal occasions in the time of MacLeay did not happen for the masses and the likes of Willie Duff were not included, in fact he is reputed to have lived in the bottom of a hedge for much of his life. The MacLeay pictures wonderful though they are ,are nothing more than eye candy painted by a commercialy minded artist for a willing and romantic minded Victorian wealthy establishment. Remember there were no cooky cutter tailors in those days, so all sorts of styles were worn and when added to the handmedown ethos, where an exact fit was not even a thought for most.

    It must be difficult for those new to the kilt with their new purchase lurking in the wardrobe, but I ask this; would you muck out the cow shed in your best suit? Many of us in Scotland from a kilt wearing background keep our best kilt for best. However in the wardrobe there could well be a 50 year old kilt much repaired,(you will not believe some of the repairs!) with apron reversed and keeping it company will be an even more tatty tweed jacket that fits where it touches. So the Willie Duff look is maintained even today! There is a picture lurking here on this website of the late Lord Lovat dressed just so and he was not alone dressing thus. So you are quite right the impeccable pictures of impeccably attired kilt gentlemen are not always realistic or even desirable. When all said and done if you still have clean shoes after a stroll in the country, then you have been no where!
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

  6. The Following 12 Users say 'Aye' to Jock Scot For This Useful Post:


  7. #5
    Join Date
    19th July 13
    Location
    Aberdeenshire, Scotland
    Posts
    653
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I would echo what what Jock says and concur with your observations. Well done indeed.

    Just a couple of minor points however with the observations of Willie's attire. Firstly, It would seem that it was common in the 19th century to wear 'saxon' jackets with the kilt, and to my mind this works to some degree because the fashion then was to button the jacket at the top only. The jacket does not then interfere with the sporran, and I occasionally wear my waterproof Barbour jacket in this manner for this reason.

    Secondly, the wearing of diced hose as day wear also seems to have been much more common in the 19th century. It is commonly seen in photographs from the period, and of the 20 MacLeay sitters who are in civilian dress and who are not wearing the 'uniform' of the Queen's estate, 16 are wearing diced, tartan or patterned hose, and only 4 are wearing plain hose. It's also worth noting that he is depicted wearing red/white diced hose which are very traditional, and one of his talents was knitting stockings of elaborate patterns. One can't help but wonder if the hose depicted in the painting were his own handiwork.

    As an aside, the one (other) MacLeay image which I think we can reasonably take to be a genuine highlander in day wear is that of Angus MacDonell. His portrait was painted several years prior to the rest and this image was not commissioned for the Queen but was in fact the inspiration for the rest.

    M17 big by Richard the Rogue, on Flickr

  8. The Following 2 Users say 'Aye' to Calgacus For This Useful Post:


  9. #6
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    10,966
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Livonian View Post
    Everyone else in the portraits looks like they made a real effort to press, shine, brush, and starch their clothes for the portrait... except for him.
    If you compare photos of Willie Duff with the MacLeay portrait you can see the way in which MacLeay, though painting all the details of face and costume with painstaking accuracy, nevertheless spruces up his subjects. In photos Willie's clothes are in bad shape.

    I'll disagree with the 'press, shine, brush, and starch' bit, because the kilts and jackets seen in The Highlanders Of Scotland look just like my kilts and jackets, which don't get any care other than hanging up after wearing. Well-made kilts and jackets, of good cloth, don't require much in the way of care and will always look smart (well, unless you wad them up in a ball for months).

    Quote Originally Posted by Livonian View Post
    He (Willie) does many things "wrong": Mixing formalities (diced hose with otherwise uber-casual attire in the same era when mere solid hose were worn with smart daywear), Jacket "too long" (I have Saxon jackets that are shorter)
    In the mid-19th century Highland Dress hadn't yet sorted itself out into precise categories of "Evening Dress" and "Day Dress" each with its own dedicated footwear, sporran, and jacket... this didn't happen until after 1900. So in the 1860s various styles of hose and shoes and sporrans and jackets might be seen worn in combinations not thought proper in 1920, or today.

    Long jackets are often encountered in 19th century photographs, and elsewhere in The Highlanders of Scotland. Such is not unique to Willie Duff, but fairly common.

    This is one of my favourite photographs, contemporary with The Highlanders of Scotland and showing precisely the sort of dress to be seen there. This fellow seems completely at ease with this clothes, as if he wears them often



    Here's Willie Duff





    and the MacLeay portrait (anyone who questions MacLeay's accuracy might well study this; note that MacLeay even captures Wille's bonnet's tendency to droop on one side)

    Last edited by OC Richard; 13th November 14 at 05:58 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  10. The Following User Says 'Aye' to OC Richard For This Useful Post:


  11. #7
    Mel1721L is offline Registration terminated at the member's request
    Join Date
    13th April 14
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    872
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Could a frockcoat have been worn with a kilt in the 19th Century?

  12. #8
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    10,966
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1721L View Post
    Could a frockcoat have been worn with a kilt in the 19th Century?
    I've seen hundreds of 19th century photos of men in Highland Dress and I can't recall offhand ever seeing that.

    In formal settings, where a frock coat would be called for, various styles of Highland jackets were worn, often quite plain.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  13. The Following User Says 'Aye' to OC Richard For This Useful Post:


  14. #9
    Join Date
    5th August 14
    Location
    Oxford, Mississippi
    Posts
    4,756
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1721L View Post
    Could a frockcoat have been worn with a kilt in the 19th Century?
    How about on a cold day if front of the magistrate? Lets guess, to pay taxes or register a birth.

  15. #10
    Join Date
    5th June 14
    Location
    Livonia, MI
    Posts
    112
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks to all of those who replied... always nice to have more information about the origins of what it is I'm wearing. My initial posting was a rambling I jotted down after a day of work and class, so there was at least one spelling error (thank you Mr. Terry1948 for pointing that out) and some not-so-perfectly-thought-out observations about Mr. Duff and the different "rules" that were applied to Highland Attire in the Victorian Era.

    I think my next acquisition may be a sack coat, which (as far as I know) is the Saxon jacket we see in many photos and portraits of the time. Most have a cuff-length hem, and should work well with the kilt, and perhaps not be horribly out of place in my Saxon attire once I roll the lapel down to cover the fourth button.

    That said, I'll be on company time in about three minutes, and therefore apologize if this post is less than eloquent.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0