The celts are not one group

[The Q]

This piece has just been on the BBC national news about a genetic survey carried out through Britain.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-31905764

Should provoke some discussion! I 'm just surprised they can still find enough locals to show this. Since for instance I live in Norfolk, with:
Norman / Scottish / Irish / English ancestry
and the English is Staffordshire /Wiltshire/ Cheshire and the Isle of Wight! and the wife brings in Yorkshire /Lincolnshire.

[Mike S]

This BBC article isn't the first time this information has been brought to light. There are a number of books written on the subject within the last few years that discussed in some detail the real genetic makeup of Europeans, paramount those of the British Isles as a result of extensive DNA testing.

A fascinating subject.

[Father Bill]

Be careful not to attribute all things to DNA; that's a popular tack these days. Some of what we identify as a "race" or "tribe" is actually sometimes better identified as a "culture."

[tundramanq]

BBC blocks some of it's content outside the UK. If the link above doesn't work try this one:
http://korvas-sux.appspot.com/www.bb...nment-31905764
I know nothing about the app site other than it works for me.

[Dale-of-Cedars]

Be careful not to attribute all things to DNA; that's a popular tack these days. Some of what we identify as a "race" or "tribe" is actually sometimes better identified as a "culture."

Summarizing much of the practical history of Britain, and the genetic results of centuries of "cultural exchange"...
King of Swamp Castle: "Please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who."
https://youtu.be/Y34RlJ0L0xE

[The Wizard of BC]

The thing that I see as a very common misconception is that the word "Celt" is used to mean a people or a nation of people. Many customers come into my shop with this misconception.
The English people do speak English and we do sometimes refer to them as The English, but you cannot use the word Celt in the same way.
I think it may stem from the "Neo-Celtic revival" of a few years ago.

The word "Celt" means "One who speaks one of the Celtic Languages". The earliest Celtic language speakers are probably the Hallstatt peoples of the area between the Rhine and Danube rivers. (600-500BC) These are the peoples who gave us the intertwined knot and anthropomorphic designs.
They are distinctively different from those who also spoke a Celtic language but gave us the circles of standing stones. These circles are only found along the western edge of Europe and the British Isles.
These two people are separated by a continent and many hundreds of years. (And these "Celts" are the same peoples that the Romans called "Gauls".)

So when you look at articles like this please remember that "The Celts" have never been one people. They are peoples from throughout Europe and the Isles who spoke a related language. Many Celtic Language speakers are very different culturally and ethnically. Even today.

[cizinec]

Be careful not to attribute all things to DNA; that's a popular tack these days. Some of what we identify as a "race" or "tribe" is actually sometimes better identified as a "culture."

I've noticed that with genealogists these days. They don't seem to grasp that race is not culture. To some degree, culture can be chosen and tribes can be changed. It's also not just some modern fluke that some people with certain DNA follow traditions and customs NOT followed by their ancestors.

I'll give an example using the most tribal society I know, the Serbs. Most Serbs will tell you they know a Serb because they celebrate Slava and they speak Serbian. But look at the DNA of Serbs. It is extremely varied. So "Serbs" are generally those who chose to celebrate Slava, speak Serbian and identify themselves as Serbs. They are not even particularly related to Russians or Slovaks or Czechs or Poles. So what is a Slav? It is clearly not just language.

The same thing has happened since the beginning of humanity: most people will gravitate to the culture they find either most prevalent or attractive or beneficial. A Celt is simply someone who found Celtic languages and customs to be most attractive or beneficial and they self-identified as a member of what *we* call a Celtic group. I think the idea that we are culturally "stuck" because of our DNA is a fairly recent invention, and not a very useful one at that.

[Destin_scot]

The word "Celt" means "One who speaks one of the Celtic Languages". The earliest Celtic language speakers are probably the Hallstatt peoples of the area between the Rhine and Danube rivers. (600-500BC) These are the peoples who gave us the intertwined knot and anthropomorphic designs.
They are distinctively different from those who also spoke a Celtic language but gave us the circles of standing stones. These circles are only found along the western edge of Europe and the British Isles.
These two people are separated by a continent and many hundreds of years. (And these "Celts" are the same peoples that the Romans called "Gauls".)

Well said and to the point...


and also look to the other "tribes" that contributed to the fall of Rome: Franks, Visigoths, Vandals; these and many germanic peoples intermingled and contributed to the genetic melting pot that Europe became before the "modern cultures" emerged. Human kind is and has always been, for the most part, keen on adopting new ideas and methods, especially if there is some kind of socio-economic advantage to be gained. Even "Ottzi" the ice mummy may have genetic connections to "celtic" cultures.

[neloon]

A more extended discussion
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-no-trace.html

Alan

[HootinHoller]

The word "Celt" means "One who speaks one of the Celtic Languages". The earliest Celtic language speakers are probably the Hallstatt peoples of the area between the Rhine and Danube rivers. (600-500BC) These are the peoples who gave us the intertwined knot and anthropomorphic designs.

Anthropomorphic designs? My understanding is that anthropomorphic means changed by man. Obviously, I'm missing something here. So, I'm curious what designs you are speaking of?