-
1st October 16, 12:58 AM
#1
Strathspey tartan -a misnomer
Here's the original specimen of the so called Strathspey tartan.
![Click image for larger version.
Name: Strathspey Waiscoat c1795.jpg
Views: 20
Size: 99.6 KB
ID: 29230](https://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/attachment.php?s=8c20d3ea7eb5b8f2397068bede32b14f&attachmentid=29230&d=1475307387&thumb=1)
Taken from the back of a Strathspey Fencibles waistcoat, this is a piece of old plaiding and not issue cloth. The identity of the owner is unknown but he was presumably a Grant or some such from the Strathspey/Rothiemurchus area. The piece will be the subject of a future paper but at this stage it's reasonable to suggest that the design should be more correctly called an Unnamed 18th century tartan from Strathspey.
-
The Following 2 Users say 'Aye' to figheadair For This Useful Post:
-
1st October 16, 04:08 AM
#2
That blue is quite vibrant. Did it survive in a cave or coffin (devoid of light)? I'm also wondering if there was some pressure involved in the dying process to saturate the fibers thus retain the color longer.
I worked one summer (1970) at Cloverdale Dye Works (High Point, N.C.) where there were huge vats to dye yarn on the spool. The darker colors were placed under vacuum while they boiled the spindles.
-
-
1st October 16, 10:08 AM
#3
The waistcoat was probably kept in a closed cupboard of some such from c1800. We have no idea how the original plaid was used or for how long but it doesn't look to have had much exposure to sunlight judging by the green which is always the colour that fades first. The dyes are all natural, the blue from indigo so no pressure dyeing would have been involved.
-
The Following User Says 'Aye' to figheadair For This Useful Post:
-
5th October 16, 07:42 AM
#4
Nice photo,
I take it you have identified what pattern the Fencible's were issued for kilts and or plaids and this is not that pattern?
Granted the docs I sent you are from a few decades earlier than this, but did you see how only waistcoat fronts were issued in subsequent years after raising a regiment? Perhaps that is how a waistcoat has a back of something other than what should be linen?
Looking forward to the article for sure
-
-
5th October 16, 10:13 AM
#5
Interesting photo - the sett somewhat resembles the Government tartan.
I have a interesting book by H.B. Macintosh entitled "The Grant, Strathspey or First Highland Fencible Regiment 1793-1799 (Elgin, 1934). Chapter 2 (Details of Uniform) describes the tartan as similar to that of the undifferenced Black Watch sett, but with a red stripe inserted. The book contains footnotes, but this generally does not include sources of where information was obtained. As to waistcoats, "The waistcoats were of white cassimere or cloth, plain and fastened by a single row of regimental buttons in pairs." A footnote adds that waistcoat fronts were supplied every two years. Although there is no information as to the fabric used for the backs, the re-use of old plaiding for the waistcoat backs would have made sense.
In another book from my library (H.B. Macintosh, "The Inverness Shire Highlanders, or 97th Regiment of Foot 1794-1796", Elgin, 1926) states that this regiment wore the same tartan as the Strathspey Fencibles, which received the 97th's stocks of the cloth when the 97th was disbanded. It is my understanding that some of the 97th's uniform items (such as grenadier caps) ended up in storage at Castle Grant and can still be accessed. I don't know if any of the OR's uniform clothing or cloth survives there, as the OR's clothing was paid for by them and went with them when the regiment was disbanded. As noted in the first book, the Strathspey Fencibles took over the 97th's supply of tartan (identical in sett to the Strathspey's) when the 97th disbanded.
-
-
5th October 16, 10:43 AM
#6
I do believe those Grenadier caps are the ones featured in the article in Military Collector and Historian, and that someone has uploaded each page as an individual jpg on Pintrest. Of course the proper thing to do is join the CMH and buy a back issue, not just troll the internet for information........
-
-
5th October 16, 11:08 AM
#7
It seems pretty clear that the 97th wore the standard 42nd sett. There is a piece that was found in one of the regimental knapsacks that supports this. As an aside, it is the oldest piece of military issue 42nd cloth I know to survive.
The comment about the red stripe in the 42nd tartan being worn by the Fencibles had lead to one historican of the Grant tartans to speculate that they wore the so called Hunting Grant, a sett which is essentially a combination of the 42nd and MacLaren tartans.
The tartan in the waistcoat is definitely from a plaid/plaiding cloth and contains some irregulaities in the weaving that suggests that it might have been rurally woven, although the colours are very well dyed and the blue in particular more like a Wilsons' blue that a traditional rural dyed shade. All in all it's a bit on an enigma.
-
The Following 2 Users say 'Aye' to figheadair For This Useful Post:
-
5th October 16, 09:40 PM
#8
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Luke MacGillie
I do believe those Grenadier caps are the ones featured in the article in Military Collector and Historian, and that someone has uploaded each page as an individual jpg on Pintrest. Of course the proper thing to do is join the CMH and buy a back issue, not just troll the internet for information........ ![Shocked](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif)
Hi Luke,
I am a member of CMH and remember that article. A couple researchers (who were members of a Guards reenactment group in the NWTA) went to Castle Grant and were given access to the grenadier caps, even being allowed to take one apart and diagram its various components. I have a copy of the article around somewhere and will have to find it.
Gerry
-
The Following User Says 'Aye' to Orvis For This Useful Post:
-
5th October 16, 10:41 PM
#9
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by figheadair
It seems pretty clear that the 97th wore the standard 42nd sett. There is a piece that was found in one of the regimental knapsacks that supports this. As an aside, it is the oldest piece of military issue 42nd cloth I know to survive.
The comment about the red stripe in the 42nd tartan being worn by the Fencibles had lead to one historican of the Grant tartans to speculate that they wore the so called Hunting Grant, a sett which is essentially a combination of the 42nd and MacLaren tartans.
The tartan in the waistcoat is definitely from a plaid/plaiding cloth and contains some irregulaities in the weaving that suggests that it might have been rurally woven, although the colours are very well dyed and the blue in particular more like a Wilsons' blue that a traditional rural dyed shade. All in all it's a bit on an enigma.
Peter, I was wondering about that. In my book on the 97th Foot, author Macintosh states, "The tartan was the same as that worn by the First or Strathspey Fencibles (of which also Sir James [Grant] was Colonel), 'which has the small red stripe in it.' (When the 97th was reduced, the tartan, hose and such other materials as were suitable were taken over by the Strathspeys.)" One learns in a footnote that tartans and hose were supplied by John Gloag, Edinburgh. Although Macintosh's information is not supported by much documentation, he does mention that "As to their clothing and equipment, details are gleaned from letters and invoices of June [apparently 1794]." Presumably, this documentation still exists at Castle Grant or in other repositories.
In his book on the Strathspey Fencibles (Ch. 2, Details of Uniform), Macintosh states, " 'The Tartan to be the same pattern you sent which had the small red stripe in it," a description confirmed by a letter from Lieut. John Grant to Gloag, Edinburgh, of date 24th June 1793. 'The plaids for the 16 Drummers "including the Drum-Major, 8 Fifers and 2 Pipers shall be the same pattern as the Kilt tartan you sent which has the small red stripe in it." Unfortunatedly, not a scrap of this Tartan can be discovered." Also, Macintosh stated, "Evidence of their having worn a distinctive Tartan is borne out by the fact that Sir James [Grant] had been unable up to 1805 (when records cease) to dispose of his surplus stocks of it. Had it been the military (same as Black Watch) sett, one would have surmised this surpluse could have been readily used for the numerous Volunteer companies raised in Strathspey, Badenoch and Inverness-shire in 1795 and 1803 - some of whom wore that Tartan. It was, apparently, similar to that sett, but with a red stripe inserted." A footnote states: "There were three qualities [of regimental tartan], that for the officers, the sergeants, and privates. The drummers and pipers usually had sergeants quality - which cost from 1s 9d per yard, privates quality costing from 1s 1d per yard."
Although author H.D. Macintosh doesn't provide documentation for his information regarding tartan (typical of the period in which he wrote), he does seem to be working from preserved invoices and correspondence from the founding of these regiments, based on the amount of specific detail he provides regarding clothing details, prices, suppliers and so forth. I should be interested in knowing if such documentation exists in the archives of Castle Grant or other repositories. As to the piece of Government (i.e., Black Watch) tartan found in a pack at Castle Grant, it could be an indicator that these two regiments used BW tartan in some way, but does not prove it was used in their plaids or kilts. I believe research at Castle Grant might clear this up.
As to the piece of plaiding used for the waistcoat back, I believe it was from an old plaid that a soldier (or a regimental tailor) managed to acquire a piece of. I can imagine that there was a good deal of old plaiding (in the form of plaids or just as pieces) floating around in those days, so we can conjecture that some of it somehow got into the hands of a soldier.
Gerry
-
-
6th October 16, 11:25 AM
#10
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by Orvis
Hi Luke,
I am a member of CMH and remember that article. A couple researchers (who were members of a Guards reenactment group in the NWTA) went to Castle Grant and were given access to the grenadier caps, even being allowed to take one apart and diagram its various components. I have a copy of the article around somewhere and will have to find it.
Gerry
I was a member for a bit, but something had to give to make the student loan payments!
-
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts
-
Forum Rules
|
|
Bookmarks