The Language of Clothing

[Janner52]

I would be interested in hearing members views on this subject. Something that annoys me a tad.

As a long serving soldier, in the British Army, I have always understood khaki to be the sand colour used for our uniforms since the end of the 19th century. It has continued in use up until the current time with some changes in shade.

However I notice over the last few years the term khaki is used to describe olive green or OG as we referred to it. Olive green was the colour we used for our combat uniforms prior to the introduction of camouflage material.

Another example is the use of the term blazer. Previously a jacket usually worn by school children and by members of various associations and other organisations to denote membership. It now is used to describe a jacket, in the style of a man’s suit jacket, but sold separately.

More of interest to forum members is the word kilt. I grew up understanding it to refer to the garment worn by the Highlanders of Scotland but it now seems to refer to any bifurcated garment designed to be worn by men. I do get that there are some brand named garments where “kilt” forms a part of that name. That is excluding such garments worn traditionally in other countries such as the sarong and the Fijian sulu.

Confusingly retailers also use the term kilt to describe any short, tartan, pleated skirt made for women.

I know times are changing but it seems like another attempt to dumb down.

I should point out that that my intention is not to start a political debate or offend anyone, as I do understand that there are lots of opinions here. I merely want to see if others see things in the same way.

[kilted2000]

I think it comes down to marketing. A non-bifurcated garment sold to men sounds better if called a kilt rather than a man skirt. Also, calling a women's skirt a kilt makes it sounds more 'heritagey' than a normal tartan skirt that may have schoolgirl associations that might discourage some women to buy. Language as a whole changes, it's part of that. Sin mar a tha e. It is what it is.

[EagleJCS]

To me, the term khaki (describing the color) is in the lighter tan/brown shades, close to beige. US Army khaki uniforms from the 1970's (which my father wore) have a VERY slight olive cast to them, but they're still more brown than green. I will on occasion casually call my cream-colored slacks khakis, knowing the actual khaki shade is typically a bit darker. Olive green is a shade of lighter brownish green - but more green than brown - and is very different from khaki. Side by side, it would be obvious that khaki would be the browner/lighter color and olive the greener color.

The term kilt for me is as you describe - the men's unbifurcated garment that originated in the Highlands and is now considered the national garment. Flat apron in the front, pleats in the back. Branded-name garments are just that, and I will use the brand names to refer to those garments. Women's garments may be differentiated/described as a kilt, but are still a specific type of skirt for women.

A blazer is similar to a sport coat or suit coat in appearance, but is different in subtle ways. Unfortunately, the terms have become blurred over the years. To me, the blazer holds the middle ground between the suit coat and the sports coat. A blazer more closely resembles a suit coat, having a similar internal structure, but is often paired with unmatched trousers. A sports coat/jacket often has patch pockets without flaps and is usually less structured than a suit coat or blazer. A good breakdown can be found on a website called The Art of Manliness. (I have no ties to the website. It simply summarizes things very well.)


I tend to be more conservative in my sartorial choices and I also try to be precise and descriptive in my vocabulary, while at the same time avoiding prolixity.

[Father Bill]

Having taught English and other subjects for just over 32 years, and having studied, read, and spoken, four other languages I consider myself a bit of a linguist. English, it would appear, morphs more quickly than most other languages, steals from them, redfines, and moves about.

An interesting couple of examples: first the change in meaning over the last century for the word "Gay". The Christmas carol was "Don we now, our gay apparel" with no reference whatever to sexual orientation. Similarly, when I was young, the word 'streak' referred to a smudge on a window. Then it became someone running naked through a sports event. It appears to once more be a smudge.

Don't be frustrated if words change their meaning. I could take you on a very complex theological dive into the meaning of some scriptural words and terms too. Not the subject matter of this forum. Change is just the way (to the horror of lawyers writing contracts and legislators writing laws) ...the way English works.

[figheadair]

Father Bill has nicely covered the fact that English in particular is a language full of loan words including those from French, Norwegian, and Arabic.

In terms of Highland Dress, the principal element, the kilt, is a loan word, in this case from the the Old Norse 'kjalta', meaning pleated. In that sense it equates to the Gaelic 'feileadh', a fold. The question of why the loan word was adopted over the indigenous one is unclear but probably arose when the garment started to be tailored (sewing in the pleats). For non-Gaelic speakers, kilt was easier to say, and spell, that feileadh and so it was adopted, particularly by the army and so handed down in the same was khaki was.

[Bruce Scott]

I would be interested in hearing members views on this subject. Something that annoys me a tad.

As a long serving soldier, in the British Army, I have always understood khaki to be the sand colour used for our uniforms since the end of the 19th century. It has continued in use up until the current time with some changes in shade.

However I notice over the last few years the term khaki is used to describe olive green or OG as we referred to it. Olive green was the colour we used for our combat uniforms prior to the introduction of camouflage material.

In the Australian Army khaki comes in at least two shades as shown below:



From the top down he is wearing a Hat, Khaki Fur Felt with a Puggaree, Khaki. His shirt is also described as khaki with which he is wearing a Necktie, Polyester Khaki and his new pattern Service Dress is also described as khaki.

[Touchstone]

Another example is the use of the term blazer. Previously a jacket usually worn by school children and by members of various associations and other organisations to denote membership. It now is used to describe a jacket, in the style of a man’s suit jacket, but sold separately.

Blazer originally referred to a gentleman's boating jacket, I believe. (I also use Art of Manliness as a guide, but Gentleman's Gazette is my go-to for these matters.) There they admit the origin and definition can be hazy.
https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/na...ed-club-guide/
The really distinctive aspect seems to be the metallic (or at least strrongly contrasting) buttons.
And, yes, as others have noticed ... language evolves.

[Pleater]

For me, if it doesn't have stripes in colours visible at at least half a mile, it isn't a blazer. It should be teamed with a boater, and a punt, picnic basket, lady friend, summer afternoons, willows sweeping down to the water - possibly a film crew and a university.

I think that khaki, being plant based, might well be altered in how it takes on the fabric by what the fibre content is - originally wool, cotton or linen and perhaps by the mordant used, and the pH of the dye bath.
I well recall the sinking feeling of realizing that the careful measuring out of ingredients has somehow gone awry meaning that one of the batches of yarn is going to be a different shade, or possibly a different colour completely.

Anne the Pleater

[Panache]

Having taught English and other subjects for just over 32 years, and having studied, read, and spoken, four other languages I consider myself a bit of a linguist. English, it would appear, morphs more quickly than most other languages, steals from them, redfines, and moves about.

An interesting couple of examples: first the change in meaning over the last century for the word "Gay". The Christmas carol was "Don we now, our gay apparel" with no reference whatever to sexual orientation. Similarly, when I was young, the word 'streak' referred to a smudge on a window. Then it became someone running naked through a sports event. It appears to once more be a smudge.

Don't be frustrated if words change their meaning. I could take you on a very complex theological dive into the meaning of some scriptural words and terms too. Not the subject matter of this forum. Change is just the way (to the horror of lawyers writing contracts and legislators writing laws) ...the way English works.

Father Bill,

I have described to elementary school students that English is a language that lurks in dark alleys and mugs other languages for vocabulary.

Cheers

Jamies

[MacKenzie]

Prior to reading this if you'd asked me what color khaki was I would have said, "A light tan or sand color. Unless you're from across the pond, where their khaki is what we refer to as 'OD green'."

And I have said as much many, many times.

In British English and some other Commonwealth usage, khaki may also refer to a shade of green known as olive drab.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaki