a skirt-like kilt

[longforgan]

I do not want to get into what are the distinctions between a man's kilt and skirt here but I have noticed that one or two of you knowledgeable folks have used the term "avoid a kilt that is too skirt-like". That brings me to my question and that is how does one determine when it crosses over the line? To get down to specifics which may be about to effect me:- I am thinking of buying a Philabeg kilt from USAkilts and notice that it doesn't seem to have the regular kilt straps but rather has belt loops (like a skirt) To those men who personally own a Philabeg or know it well, what do you say? Is the Philabeg definitely a kilt in every sense of the word or not? Please get back to me asap because I need to get something real soon. Many thanks,- Longforgan

[Magnus Sporrano]

I own a couple of Philabegs and wear them everywhere. These are kilts. The difference between leather vs. velcro closures doesn't matter much in the distinction between kilt & skirt. Apron in the front, pleats in the back, right length... it passes.

If you see pleats all around, or no pleats at all, or the length is too long or too short, you're getting out of kilt turf IMO.

Note that all kilts are skirts, but there are a lot of people who are in denial about that. It's important to note because you can't ask for the difference between a kilt and a skirt when a kilt is a skirt.

There are other skirts out there that are masculine but you're sort of getting out of the domain of this forum when you go there. Then there are skirts which are feminine in design, which some men are really into wearing, and will argue with you until they are blue in the face that clothes don't have a gender. I'm not in a camp that would agree with them.

But I am in a camp that thinks there is more to men in masculine skirts than just kilts. I think the kilt is probably the most socially acceptable masculine skirt, and possibly the most evolved of the masculine skirts, but there is more out there.

Back to your specific dilemma. I have two philabegs and plan on getting a third after the new year. I'm quite pleased with them. The look good, wear well, and are very easy to maintain. Price is nice.

[elijah]

Prime example of a Kilt that's not really a kilt:



The so-called Running Kilt. There are others to be sure, but that's the most blatant.

[arrogcow]

For the most part, I think it mainly has to deal with the wearer's comfort level. Anything that is a tartan and pleated, most people will recognise as a kilt. I started wearing UK's years ago, with the pockets (and other accessories on the more expensive models) they still have a more masculine feel to them in my opinion. I have one mocker, and it is the one I am least likely to wear, because (to me at least) it looks more skirtlike, and I don't want to be hassled by some ignorant jerk (where as in a Workmans I look like I could kick some butt).

This has carried over to some extent with why I haven't bought (until two weeks ago) any other manufacturer's contemporary kilts. I have just bought (not yet received) a Pittsburgh Kilt. I did it because I wanted a lined one for colder days, but part of me is worried if it will be as accepted as my UK's by the community at large. Logically I think it probably will be, and all my concerns are for nothing (just like when I started wearing kilts on a regular basis in the first place).

The USA kilt philabeg is definitely on my radar, and if the PK goes over well, I will probably get one.

Adam (Who other than to a funeral, hasn't worn pants in months)

[longforgan]

To my kilted brethren who offered help,- thankyou, thankyou! Magnus, you were particularly supportive and since then, and after more dialog with Rocky, I placed my order for a Philabeg in MacBeth tartan. Am really looking forward to receiving it. This will be kilt number two in the present series. The one I wear now is a homemade in the Black Watch Dress which I found at a sale. I also have a traditional Sutherland on it's way from Scotland and am seriously considering an 8 yard from Bear. If any of you folks are within hailing distance of Vancouver and are planning to be at the kilt night on the 4th, please give me a shout. Thanks again.- keep swingin' -Longforgan

[Colin]

To my kilted brethren who offered help,- thankyou, thankyou! Magnus, you were particularly supportive and since then, and after more dialog with Rocky, I placed my order for a Philabeg in MacBeth tartan. Am really looking forward to receiving it. This will be kilt number two in the present series. The one I wear now is a homemade in the Black Watch Dress which I found at a sale. I also have a traditional Sutherland on it's way from Scotland and am seriously considering an 8 yard from Bear. If any of you folks are within hailing distance of Vancouver and are planning to be at the kilt night on the 4th, please give me a shout. Thanks again.- keep swingin' -Longforgan

You would never regretting an 8 yard Bear kilt, they are awesome. I am not sure how big kiltsnight will be this month. I have to skip it. That crazy time of year has arrived, and the schedule is always double booked. I haven't heard who will be out on the 4th, but I am sure there will be a few at least. Make sure you try and come up around St. Paddy's day when we have our weeklong Celticfest in Vancouver.

[mcnice]

when my mother made my first two kilts, my third was a woman´s kilt bought very cheap from ebay in camel thomson. all she had to to was to shorten it and i got a well fitting leight weight kilt. the only thing that it has a bit more space at the back of the pleats, as more appropriate to female body. but thats really not a bid deal. although i had no discomfort, i never bought a woman s skirt, and i can t really explain that, must be the honour of men in me

but i ve seen there are some skirts that have a normal straighter cut, and not the room for female hips and would also close on the right side.

those running kilts look awfull. at least when worn in casual as a "kilt". when used to make sports, not my case but why not. i just don t so short kilts.

[Barb T]

Hi

The term philabeg is the anglicized version of the Gaelic term feileadh beag, which means "little kilt". A traditional feileadh beag is what we think of as a modern kilt, as opposed to a great kilt (feileadh mor), the traditional Highland dress of the 18th century. A great kilt is simply a huge rectangle of tartan that is pleated loosely and belted each time the kilt is worn. By contrast, a feileadh beag has stitched and pressed knife pleats and was developed in the 18th century in the British Highland regiments.

So, a "philabeg", or little kilt, is a traditional kilt. What characterizes a traditional kilt? Lots of fabric (typically 8 yards, although it can be more or less depending upon the sett and the size of the person), hand-stitched pleats, pleating either to the sett or stripe, a rise above the waist of 2" or so, apron opening on the right (as viewed by the wearer), and a length to the top of the knee cap. That's a traditional kilt or philabeg.

By contrast, a kilted skirt typically has much less material and is not pleated to the sett or stripe, has machine stitched pleats, and, commonly, opens on the left. Lengths are variable.

What I've said reflects _traditional_ Scottish kilts and kilted skirts and might help someone who wants to choose a traditional kilt. There are lots of kinds of kilts in the world, if one views the definition loosely. Even the short pleated garments worn in Ancient Egypt are commonly referred to as kilts. So, lots of things can be and are called kilts.

Cheers,

Barb

[Magnus Sporrano]

Hi
The term philabeg is the anglicized version of the Gaelic term feileadh beag, which means "little kilt".

Actually "philabeg" is a play on words. Google it and the first hit you'll find is USA Kilts, which is located in (can you guess?) [b]Phila{/b]delphia.

[Barb T]

Hi Magnus

Yeh, that's what happens when you Google the word, but the the word "philabeg" dates from long before the Internet. So, they've just appropriated the word.

Here's a bit more info. Because "philabeg" is the anglicized version of a Gaelic word, it's sometimes spelled "filibeg" (see http:dict.die.net/philabeg/)

Here are a couple of lines from a couple old traditional tunes:

"I got sic flegs Wi' their claymores an' philabegs"

"When the boys in philbegs come marching home..." (the latter is a WW I tune, as far as I know)

So, yes, USA kilts have used it as a play on words, but it's a much older term than that. Very clever of them, though!!

Cheers,

Barb