Fitness Challenge!

[Kilted Jeeper]

A what?

Paleo Diet sometimes called the caveman diet is basically eating the same way our hunter/gatherer ancetors ate. Basically nothing refined and very little if any grains.

It's basically eating Lean proteins (ideally) grass fed meat, free range fowl and wild caught fish, seasonal fruits and vegetables and healthy fats such as nuts, seeds, avocado, olive oil, and coconut oil.

My Crossfit affiliate is doing a 60 diet challenge in which I am participating and I was wondering if anyone else had tried it or moved more towards it as a lifestyle.

[Brett]

I don't usually use the term Paleo diet as the idea has been around for a very long time and "paleo diet" is just the latest marketing nonsense. They also make up all kinds of mythological, historical stories to support the concept, that hasn't really stood up to the historical or scientific research. That said, the diet concept itself is very effective and usually improves most markers of health, often dramatically. Years ago, long before the term paleo diet was coined, we used to call the it the "dead animals and green stuff" diet. Many old time trainers and health practitioners have been prescribing this diet over the last century. It comes in and out of vogue like everything else.

The same goes for crossfit, it's nothing new, just a new marketing package. There are some aspects of it that are very useful and some that are outright dangerous.

Paleo Diet sometimes called the caveman diet is basically eating the same way our hunter/gatherer ancetors ate. Basically nothing refined and very little if any grains.

It's basically eating Lean proteins (ideally) grass fed meat, free range fowl and wild caught fish, seasonal fruits and vegetables and healthy fats such as nuts, seeds, avocado, olive oil, and coconut oil.

My Crossfit affiliate is doing a 60 diet challenge in which I am participating and I was wondering if anyone else had tried it or moved more towards it as a lifestyle.

[Joshua]

I don't usually use the term Paleo diet as the idea has been around for a very long time and "paleo diet" is just the latest marketing nonsense.

If the term Paleo diet is marketing nonsense, then Dr. Cordain is sucking at it, as he is the one that coined the phrase. The term has been expanded to include dozens of different types of diets, some focusing on higher carbs like tubers, and some more classic with the "meat, leaves, berries" schtick that ends up being fairly low carb. Paleo might have been a commercial term a decade ago, but today pretty much reflects a varied style of eating that is only unified by the lack of grain, legumes, processed sugar, and artificial flavorings/sweeteners.

I will say the "Primal Diet" advocated by Mark Sisson is very much a marketing scheme, and is the "Johnny Come Lately" - but some people look to flash to find success, and I'm not gonna crap on his success. The guy lives his concepts and is really motivated, but for me he still comes off as a hack. He rebranded the concepts of Paleo/Hunter-Gatherer eating, added some supplements, allowed dairy and some other foods... and called it "Primal".

They also make up all kinds of mythological, historical stories to support the concept, that hasn't really stood up to the historical or scientific research.

I'd like to see some of your examples, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just have followed this way of eating off-and-on (finances withstanding) for over a decade and I don't have any clue what you are on about.

That said, the diet concept itself is very effective and usually improves most markers of health, often dramatically. Years ago, long before the term paleo diet was coined, we used to call the it the "dead animals and green stuff" diet. Many old time trainers and health practitioners have been prescribing this diet over the last century. It comes in and out of vogue like everything else.

Most "old time trainers" that I am familiar with prescribed the "GOMAD" principles (Gallon Of Milk a Day) to gain weight, and the disgusting and unhealthy "Tuna Fast" to lose weight. Dan John's "Meat, Leaves, and Berries" diet was coined after Audette's Neanderthin, and Cordain's "Paleo Diet". As far as long-timers suggesting this diet, I can really only think of Banting's "Letter on Corpulence" and the works of Stephansson as being influential - both using an Ancestral, Hunter-Gatherer-based diet and reporting cured ailments such as diabetes and obesity. Despite training with several real "old time" strength trainers for the last half of my own life, I can't really remember anyone telling me that they used anything anywhere near the paleo diet... but they watched me lose 120lbs following it in 9 months time (they had a bit of envy that I was eating steak, eggs, and tomatoes every morning and having such drastic fat-loss results while still getting stronger).

The same goes for crossfit, it's nothing new, just a new marketing package. There are some aspects of it that are very useful and some that are outright dangerous.

I've got no love for Crossfit, except the pictures floating around on the net. I try to avoid any fitness zealotry and they seem to breed the most. However, prior to Glassman's concepts, the only people really following this combination of strength, gymnastics, calisthenics, and running were people doing it on their own. Crossfit isn't a system as much as it is a community.

[biblemonkey]

P-90X: Day one-Week one-Month one

Back on the wagon for the first time in four months. Ow...Felt like I was going to throw up. Still gonna BRING IT! If my coach at teamripped.com can do it then I know I can.

Oh, Spirit pray for me...ow. ith:

Hugh

[Kilted Jeeper]

I didn't really bring up Paleo and Crossfit to get into a philosophical discussion about either one. This thread is about "Fitness" and diet and exercise fit into that. I don't care about the people that think Crossfit is just a different flavor of kool-aid (I happen to like the kool-aid and the community aspect in this case) and I am fully aware that Paleo/Primal eating is nothing new. I simply wanted to say that I found something "new" for me and I am having wonderful success with it. Not every diet/exercise program works for everyone, I am happy to say that I found a combination that seems to work for me. I have lost 25lbs, more than 4" off my waist, I have more energy, sleep better at night, according to the wife I don't snore anymore, I don't EVER get heartburn any more and I don't get wicked cravings or a 2pm crash. With results like this I don't care if Paleo and Crossfit were developed as a joke/marketing gimmic or not...I get results and am improving myself and THAT is what matters. :cheers:

If the term Paleo diet is marketing nonsense, then Dr. Cordain is sucking at it, as he is the one that coined the phrase. The term has been expanded to include dozens of different types of diets, some focusing on higher carbs like tubers, and some more classic with the "meat, leaves, berries" schtick that ends up being fairly low carb. Paleo might have been a commercial term a decade ago, but today pretty much reflects a varied style of eating that is only unified by the lack of grain, legumes, processed sugar, and artificial flavorings/sweeteners.

I will say the "Primal Diet" advocated by Mark Sisson is very much a marketing scheme, and is the "Johnny Come Lately" - but some people look to flash to find success, and I'm not gonna crap on his success. The guy lives his concepts and is really motivated, but for me he still comes off as a hack. He rebranded the concepts of Paleo/Hunter-Gatherer eating, added some supplements, allowed dairy and some other foods... and called it "Primal".


I'd like to see some of your examples, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just have followed this way of eating off-and-on (finances withstanding) for over a decade and I don't have any clue what you are on about.



Most "old time trainers" that I am familiar with prescribed the "GOMAD" principles (Gallon Of Milk a Day) to gain weight, and the disgusting and unhealthy "Tuna Fast" to lose weight. Dan John's "Meat, Leaves, and Berries" diet was coined after Audette's Neanderthin, and Cordain's "Paleo Diet". As far as long-timers suggesting this diet, I can really only think of Banting's "Letter on Corpulence" and the works of Stephansson as being influential - both using an Ancestral, Hunter-Gatherer-based diet and reporting cured ailments such as diabetes and obesity. Despite training with several real "old time" strength trainers for the last half of my own life, I can't really remember anyone telling me that they used anything anywhere near the paleo diet... but they watched me lose 120lbs following it in 9 months time (they had a bit of envy that I was eating steak, eggs, and tomatoes every morning and having such drastic fat-loss results while still getting stronger).



I've got no love for Crossfit, except the pictures floating around on the net. I try to avoid any fitness zealotry and they seem to breed the most. However, prior to Glassman's concepts, the only people really following this combination of strength, gymnastics, calisthenics, and running were people doing it on their own. Crossfit isn't a system as much as it is a community.

[Joshua]

Best of luck Jeeper, and I'm glad you are having success, I also predict that if you stick with it - you will continue to have success. In 2003 I literally lost 130lbs of fat following this way of eating, but by kidding myself about needing carbs to get stronger, abandoned it for a few years while I tried to climb my way up the NA Strongman HW Amateur ranks. I've been following it again for the past two years, but because I am not as active, the weightloss hasn't been as dramatic... about a 60lbs loss in these two years (with a 4-month hiatus due to finances which took me 30lbs in the wrong direction). However, making the serious decision to not compete in Strongman anymore ensures that I will stick with this diet, unless finances get me down to the "ramen and peanut butter" diet that many of us might have had to endure in our youth.

And I'm sorry for going off on a tangent there. If you follow this thread from the beginning you'll see that I've been quite defensive of the lifestyle that specifically "saved my life", admittedly perhaps too much so...

[Kilted Jeeper]

And I'm sorry for going off on a tangent there. If you follow this thread from the beginning you'll see that I've been quite defensive of the lifestyle that specifically "saved my life", admittedly perhaps too much so...

Josh, I wish you the best of luck, the amount of weight you have lost is impressive to say the least. As for the tangent, no worries and no apology neccessary. I guess I was just sick of the debate from spending so much time with family over the holidays. Everyone tells you how great you look, but seems to want to tell you how you are "doing it wrong" despite the results.

[Brett]

I can see how my original post came off as arguementative and I apologize for any upset it may have caused.
As you say, the paleo diet has been expanded over time to include other foods, which suggests it's attempting to expand as the science of what paleolithic people actually ate debunks some of the early claims.....good on them for that. There is a fair bit of evidence to suggest that paleolithic people even ate grains and legumes in certain amounts, when available. I would imagine most paleolithic people were simply opportunists happy to eat whatever was available with little regard to blood sugar issues, obesity or long term health. My issue is less with Cordain himself than the paleo die-hards nutters who insist any type of grain or processed food in a diet is inherently unhealthy and responsible for the obesity epidemic and the multitude of related health issues.
As for the low-carb aspect of the paleo diet, off the top of my head, it's predated by guys like Dr. Mauro Dipasquale, John Parillo, Dan Duchaine, Lyle Macdonald and a few others in the nutrition guru world who's names escape me at the moment. Certainly ketogenic diets have been prescribed for over a century by many doctors, but was seriously set back by the high carb, low fat phase of the 80's and 90's. In addition, many old time bodybuilders used low carb and even ketogenic diets before the low-fat craze. From the 40's through the early 70's ketogenic diets were quite popular with the venice beach boys.
For what it's worth, I personally maintain a lowish carb diet and will drop most carbs when dieting. For my bodytype, low carb diets work the quickest and I feel the best while on them. I went from a high of 260lbs to 200lbs on a low carb diet, so I understand your preference for it. Like yourself, I gained some of it back in the pursuit of strength sports, but now that I have no desire to chase strength gains at all cost, I will likely live out my days in a low carb life, lol.
Again, my issue is less with Cordain and his diet itself, it's with the paleo zealots who insist it's the "only way" to live a healthy life. Pubmed is full of old and recent research that counters the ideas that dairy, legumes, grains and even the devil sugars are inherently unhealthy.

As for the Crossfit zealots, I'm of a similar opinion as you, although likely a little more militant towards most crossfit quacks. As for systems that predate it, I would throw out John Davie's "Renegade Training", which I think Glassman likely took many of his ideas from. He certainly did a better marketing job than Davies.

If the term Paleo diet is marketing nonsense, then Dr. Cordain is sucking at it, as he is the one that coined the phrase. The term has been expanded to include dozens of different types of diets, some focusing on higher carbs like tubers, and some more classic with the "meat, leaves, berries" schtick that ends up being fairly low carb. Paleo might have been a commercial term a decade ago, but today pretty much reflects a varied style of eating that is only unified by the lack of grain, legumes, processed sugar, and artificial flavorings/sweeteners.

I will say the "Primal Diet" advocated by Mark Sisson is very much a marketing scheme, and is the "Johnny Come Lately" - but some people look to flash to find success, and I'm not gonna crap on his success. The guy lives his concepts and is really motivated, but for me he still comes off as a hack. He rebranded the concepts of Paleo/Hunter-Gatherer eating, added some supplements, allowed dairy and some other foods... and called it "Primal".


I'd like to see some of your examples, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just have followed this way of eating off-and-on (finances withstanding) for over a decade and I don't have any clue what you are on about.



Most "old time trainers" that I am familiar with prescribed the "GOMAD" principles (Gallon Of Milk a Day) to gain weight, and the disgusting and unhealthy "Tuna Fast" to lose weight. Dan John's "Meat, Leaves, and Berries" diet was coined after Audette's Neanderthin, and Cordain's "Paleo Diet". As far as long-timers suggesting this diet, I can really only think of Banting's "Letter on Corpulence" and the works of Stephansson as being influential - both using an Ancestral, Hunter-Gatherer-based diet and reporting cured ailments such as diabetes and obesity. Despite training with several real "old time" strength trainers for the last half of my own life, I can't really remember anyone telling me that they used anything anywhere near the paleo diet... but they watched me lose 120lbs following it in 9 months time (they had a bit of envy that I was eating steak, eggs, and tomatoes every morning and having such drastic fat-loss results while still getting stronger).



I've got no love for Crossfit, except the pictures floating around on the net. I try to avoid any fitness zealotry and they seem to breed the most. However, prior to Glassman's concepts, the only people really following this combination of strength, gymnastics, calisthenics, and running were people doing it on their own. Crossfit isn't a system as much as it is a community.

[Joshua]

I loved DiPasquale's work, although much of his major success subjects (Palumbo, Duchaine) involved high steroid use.

I followed Lyle McDonald's RFL diet for awhile. After 3 months or so, although I had lost substantial weight, when I was sick of crapping lava and getting sick constantly so I gave it up. Lyle's response was "eat more fiber" which made matters worse for me, personally. Maybe my physiology was significantly different than others, but yeah... RFL is not a healthy diet, something I attribute to the major lack of fat. To Lyle's defense he has multiple diets he has authored, is very knowledgeable, and has staunchly defended that his RFL is not to be used long-term. Not to mention, unlike other protein-only fasting diets he advocates whole foods. However, the "PSMF" concept I feel is an invitation for yo-yo dieting... so unless you are already thin and just want to see those abs, avoid like the plague.

And now for some thread relevance.

Shortly after my last few posts last year on this thread, my family and I went through a fairly rough financial patch... a combination of poor management of personal funds, family member's untreated addictions going out of control, and a job transition that left me a month without pay, I had to cancel the gym membership, I had to sell off a ton of stuff, and I had to eat meager meals... additionally working 70+ hours a week, out of state, without a kitchen. Although I was eating less than 1500 calories a day (I recorded the intakes as an experiment), I was eating Appalachian-style peasant food... cheap, carb-heavy, etc... (corn, fatback, corn, beans, corn, cornbread, and corn) When starting in this thread, I was about 330lbs, down from 380 in late 2009, again down from 430 back in 2003 (from 2005-2007 I maintained 350lbs as I was competing at the top amateur levels in Florida for Strongman).

I had climbed back up 30lbs, to 362lbs as of late november last year. I'm down now to 345 as of this morning, I have 15 more pounds to go to be "back where I started", but probably won't start doing anything more physical than walking for another 25lbs, just to take it easy on my joints.

My iteration of the way I'm eating now is a hybrid of all that I have learned - some of it might sound like a fad, but it really works well for me.

1. At least 1lb of raw, fresh fruits/vegetables per day. No exceptions. My "shortcut" for this is to put 1/2lb of kale, cranberries, strawberries, blueberries, carrots, spirulina into a blender with water and chug it down in the morning with my bacon and eggs. I no longer cook my veggies eaten with meals... just wash and munch.

2. Achieve a 4:1 or better Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio in my daily diet. This generally helps my mood, joints, heart, and ensures I'm eating enough fatty fish.

3. No matter how many people are having success with a higher-starch "paleo diet", I simply cannot. Perhaps it's due to being obese since my mid-teens and having some insulin-dependance issues, but adding starch to a meal turns off my "I'm Full" signals in the brain and I'll literally eat until I sleep.

4. If generally sedentary, I must eat less than 2300cal/day to lose .5-1lb of weight a day. 45-60% of those calories should come from a balanced ratio of fat... meaning fatty fish, grassfed beef, coconut oil, avocados. If exercising frequently, I can either keep the calories the same and introduce considerably more fruit, or I can keep the intake ratios the same and bump the calories up by about 1000/day.

5. Fast every once in awhile. Conquering hunger is the biggest hurdle for a fatty. If you can say no to hunger for 48 hours, you are winning. Plus, it helps you to look at the whole picture, eating 2000 calories a day for 2 weeks, with 1 24-hour fast, equals an average deficit of 250 cals/day over the course of those 2 weeks. Long-term fasting can damage metabolism, however... so keep it under 1-2 days.

6. SLEEP COMES FIRST! Go to bed early enough, that you can wake without an alarm clock and still get to work on time. Black-out your bedroom, if you can see your hand in front of your face in the middle of the night, it isn't dark enough.

I've acclimated to this over the past 4 weeks, and by going to bed before 10pm I wake up at 5:30-6:00 AM every day, completely refreshed and not having my pulse spike with an alarm (I actually took my waking pulse and noticed a 15bpm difference in waking naturally vs. waking with an alarm clock).

7. Walk more! I'm walking dogs a couple of times a day, walking to the grocery store, and walking on my lunch breaks at work. This helps health, I get sunlight, and I get more time not staring at a glowing box.

[Reverend Graham]

My Deca Ironman training is going well, only 4 and a half months left to get as fit as possible, finished the base training at the end of Dec and started the endurance phase till the end of Feb, then it's just 3 months of beast training till the event, throwing in a double marathon at the end of Feb as a training session.

There will be photos and possibility of a dvd at the end of the race, I will try to popst some of them. Only 3 finished the race last year in the UK, if I can finish I will be the first super vet to finish ( I'm in the 55-60 age group ) in the UK.

As a side issue, I thought this thread was about fitness training, not just about diet ? maybe I got it wrong

Graham