Quality Sporrans for less money

**OC Richard** · 13th March 25, 05:29 AM

The US Customs thing is so complicated.

Back in the 1980s I worked at a Highland Outfitter in California and we had to deal with that constantly.

The law might have been changed, but at that time a "wool garment" and a "fringed garment" were separate categories.

The duty was much higher on "fringed garments" so kilts were sent to us with the fringe not pulled out. (I'd have to pull out the fringe when an order of kilts came in, for example 20 for our Pipe Band.)

Anyway, about various creatures that aren't 'sea mammals' I don't know.

**jsrnephdoc** · 13th March 25, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by OC Richard

The US Customs thing is so complicated.

Back in the 1980s I worked at a Highland Outfitter in California and we had to deal with that constantly.

The law might have been changed, but at that time a "wool garment" and a "fringed garment" were separate categories.

The duty was much higher on "fringed garments" so kilts were sent to us with the fringe not pulled out. (I'd have to pull out the fringe when an order of kilts came in, for example 20 for our Pipe Band.)

Anyway, about various creatures that aren't 'sea mammals' I don't know.

I have even LESS understanding of how goods are taxed in the UK for local use or consumption by UK citizens. It appears that the intent is to encourage local industry by NOT charging taxes on goods that are being exported. I'm amazed when I see kilt prices charged to Scottish Citizens much higher than what we in the US have to pay for the same garments.

But, about the white-furred ermine. I've seen one, live, just within the past two months, when I went for my very first Nordic Ski lesson, 15 miles away, 2000 ft up vertically from Bozeman. After my lesson, I was sitting in the public room at the ski center, and my eye was caught by what looked like a tiny self-propelled cocktail cherry flitting across brand new snow. But then I noticed 4 associated bits of black roughly at corners of a rectangle and realized I was looking at a real, live ermine. Enough for me never to employ one as a pocket.

**Tomo** · 14th March 25, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by jsrnephdoc

I have even LESS understanding of how goods are taxed in the UK for local use or consumption by UK citizens. It appears that the intent is to encourage local industry by NOT charging taxes on goods that are being exported. I'm amazed when I see kilt prices charged to Scottish Citizens much higher than what we in the US have to pay for the same garments.

Basically for domestic sales they charge VAT (Value Added Tax). This is a sales tax which I understand is determined on a state by state basis in the US and is not universal e.g NOMAD. Another potential difference is the point at which the tax is applied. In the UK, VAT is added to the sales price and paid by the purchaser, but VAT registered purchasers can offset the VAT they pay on purchased for their business against the VAT they have charged on their own sales and they only account to HMRC (the tax revenue) for the difference.

VAT in the UK is currently calculated on three rates:

Standard Rate 20% on most goods and services

Reduced Rate 5% on some goods and services, e.g. child car seats and home energy

Zero Rate 0% e.g. most food and children's clothes

VAT is not generally charged on exports - so the price for US customers will typically be 20% less than domestic sales - but may be liable for import duties and tariffs which the buyer pays. Exports to the EU are a little more complex and in some cases may include VAT so some care is needed to avoid being hit twice and paying VAT on importation as well.

**OC Richard** · 17th March 25, 05:34 AM

The title of this thread is Quality Sporrans for less money.

But here's the flipside, a Low Quality Sporran for less money.

Already the "Kilt Society" stamp on the back of the sporran was a red flag, sounding like a typical Pakistan-based firm name.

But the front of the sporran, the cantle and the bells, guarantee that it's Pakistani.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/17691915239...Bk9SR9TuncG0ZQ

Here's the "Kilt Society" sporran compared to a vintage EW3 sporran by WE Scott or Nicoll Brothers (we would need to see the back to know).

You can see that they did re-cast of the cantle and side bosses (rough though the bosses are) but the central boss is way off.

Notice the distinctive squarish bell shape and squarish knob shape that most Pakistani sporrans have.

Interestingly the Pakistani sporran is a copy of the higher-quality silver-plated UK-made cantle made of five separate pieces screwed together (the tell-tale thing often being the crooked side bosses) rather than the lower-quality chrome-plated UK-made cantle with the bosses cast as a piece with the cantle.

**OC Richard** · 17th March 25, 03:16 PM

WE Scott seal-front "Day" sporran around 30 pounds, a bit grubby.

Also a waistbelt, pair of shoe things, and a strange ugly home-made sporran.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/18705089393...Bk9SR5CW2OK0ZQ

**Tomo** · 18th March 25, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by OC Richard

Already the "Kilt Society" stamp on the back of the sporran was a red flag, sounding like a typical Pakistan-based firm name.

Kilt Society is a Scottish company based in Edinburgh - it was set up by couple whose main business is seeling tartan blankets.

Although I can't comment on where they get their sporrans.

**OC Richard** · 22nd March 25, 07:18 AM

Perhaps a different Kilt Society firm, this one defo Pakistani, 8 yard kilts for 65 pounds etc etc

https://kiltsociety.com/collections/kilts

Now with their sporrans some are priced so that they could be by WE Scott, others priced indicating Pakistan.

Sadly the couple I clicked on didn't show the backs. It's the backs that are the best indicator of where they were made.

https://kiltsociety.com/collections/sporrans

**jsrnephdoc** · 22nd March 25, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by OC Richard

Perhaps a different Kilt Society firm, this one defo Pakistani, 8 yard kilts for 65 pounds etc etc

https://kiltsociety.com/collections/kilts

Now with their sporrans some are priced so that they could be by WE Scott, others priced indicating Pakistan.

Sadly the couple I clicked on didn't show the backs. It's the backs that are the best indicator of where they were made.

https://kiltsociety.com/collections/sporrans

The first link above takes me to a site where the £65 kilt is either a cotton utility kilt or polyviscose, but where woolen kilts priced similarly to those from other reputable makers come from known Scottish mills with trademarked fabric designations AND a statement that they have a head office and phone number in Edinburgh (but not a storefront).

That's not the same as proclaiming where and how they sew their fabric, of course…

**OC Richard** · 23rd March 25, 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by jsrnephdoc

The first link above takes me to a site...where woolen kilts priced similarly to those from other reputable makers come from known Scottish mills...

I saw the 8-yard wool kilt for 200 pounds, which wouldn't even cover the cost of four yards double width 13 ounce kilting cloth from Lochcarron, for example, at 64 pounds a yard.

So it would be over 250 pounds just for the cloth. Then you would have to pay the kiltmaker.

**jsrnephdoc** · 23rd March 25, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by OC Richard

I saw the 8-yard wool kilt for 200 pounds, which wouldn't even cover the cost of four yards double width 13 ounce kilting cloth from Lochcarron, for example, at 64 pounds a yard.

So it would be over 250 pounds just for the cloth. Then you would have to pay the kiltmaker.

EXCEPT that, if you follow the links to that item (in Douglas Weathered tartan), it's 8 yards of synthetic cloth. On the other hand, if you go back to the site and select, for example, https://kiltsociety.com/collections/...avyweight-wool, the pricing is more in line what one might expect from a kiltmaker in Scotland, although CERTAINLY less expensive than what one would pay at Kinloch Anderson, for example.