Unicorn Arms of Kings of Scots

**macwilkin** · 14th January 08, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by chimera

Arlen,
It is most interesting that the unicorn may have pre-dated James 1. That would confirm its joint Scot and Cymri Celt tradition. The Gordon dragon is relevant here, and connects with the next reply.
MacMillan,
Lions have always been militant symbols and the joint goat-lion combines horns with it. To Greeks, billy-goat "krios" was a monster due to its charging with horns, and the battering ram on galleys was a "kriomachin" goat machine. The Greek hero Bellerophon riding Pegasus the winged horse, battled the goat-lion Chimera and "poured lead down its fiery throat and killed it". Lead bullets for sling-shots have been excavated in Greece. Chimera then became Mount Olympias volcano in "Turkey" and a guardian of the dead, keeping out the dishonest.
_ "Handbook Greek Myth" H Rose. p.83.
The horned-lion is carved on Persian palaces of 6th and
5th centuryBC, and the site I copied is of a gold ornament of that time, now in Metropolitan Museum NY. This dates from 2 centuries after the Homer legend of Chimera.
He wrote of Chimera being daughter of Kelto snake-woman,
daughter of Brettanos of Gaul._"Python-Delphic Myth" Fontenrose. UCal. 1959. p.97-9. (Diodorus 5.24 Parthenion Alcman 30). Kelto and Hercules produced Keltos, "the Celt".
Kelto was a viper, and Greek "dracos"means a snake, hence "dragon". The Chimera is on many artworks and was carved as a gold sculpture by the Etruscans in Italy 6th century BC. That connects with Rome and the time of Scots before they sailed across to the Highlands. Some Celts were in "Turkey" from 4th centuryBC and "Hungary" a century before, where Scythians also had moved in.
(this stuff gets me going...)

All well and good, but this really has nothing to do with Scottish heraldry. Heraldry wasn't even around in the 6th century.

T.

**Bugbear** · 14th January 08, 01:15 PM

Ohhhh, that's the volcano thing, and the river Stix and so on and so on. That first post just seems kind of... disturbing somehow. I'm enjoying reading all of this though, thanks, cajunscot, the symbology is starting to become more alive for me now.

**Monkey@Arms** · 14th January 08, 02:38 PM

Lions carrying knives? And you guys give us grief about our bears packing heat.

Best regards,

Jake

**macwilkin** · 14th January 08, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Monkey@Arms

Lions carrying knives? And you guys give us grief about our bears packing heat.

Best regards,

Jake

Anyway, getting back to the topic...

Here's an interesting article about unicorns in heraldry:

http://pages.infinit.net/cerame/hera...es/unicorn.htm

T.

**Monkey@Arms** · 14th January 08, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

Anyway, getting back to the topic...

T.

There was a topic? You mean the part about throwing people into volcanoes?

Best regards,

Jake

**macwilkin** · 14th January 08, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Monkey@Arms

There was a topic? You mean the part about throwing people into volcanoes?

Best regards,

Jake

No, unicorns in Scottish heraldry.

T.

**Bugbear** · 14th January 08, 03:17 PM

Thank you for that link, cajunscot. I have saved an HTML copy of that on my computer. I do often wonder how these concepts and ideas crop up all over the world without contact, and sometimes around the same time... It seems to happen to scientests a bit too... intuition perhaps.

**Ruanaidh** · 14th January 08, 03:31 PM

Sorry, you guys lost me with the griffins.

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 14th January 08, 04:05 PM

CHIMERA
As riveting as all this ancient Persian and Greek stuff probably is, I am sorry to say that it really doesn't seem to add much to my understanding of heraldry. That said, "Ulysses" didn't add much to my understanding of western literature-- in fact I found it a chore and bore (I am referring to James Joyce, not Homer-- his stuff was just so much Greek to me). The point I'm making is that I doubt very much if any of us X Markers can validate your thesis, whatever it may be. Might I suggest that you try bouncing your ideas off the Society of Antiquaries in Edinburgh? We have a lot of members with FSA (Scot.) after their name and I'm sure one of them could direct you to the appropriate site to air your theories concerning the connections between Ancient Persia and Caledonia. Meantime, if you want to know your grannies tartan, your clan chief's telephone number, or why a whole bunch of families from Moray-shire all have three blue stars on their shields, no better place to post those questions than here on X Marks the Scot.

**chimera** · 14th January 08, 11:24 PM

cajunscot T.,
My stuff was originally posted in "Off Topic" but was moved here. The meaning of Arms can be seen by knowing the background history, when real legends were drawn as Heraldry.
Ted,
Chimera was thrown into a volcano , a burning gas-vent in south "Turkey" today._"Lycia" T Bryce. Zeus flung Chimera's mother, Kelto Echidna dragon into mount Etna volcano for producing Chimera to rival Athena as war-goddess. Kelto was from Gaul France and it is very likely that Scottish ancestors knew the legend. Cajunscot's quote shows that the dragon was on the Arms and replaced by horned lion. Tudor English also replaced their dragon with the goat-lion in 1603.
MacMillan,
I will try SA. The number of replies shows some interest.