Fitness Challenge!

[Kilted Jeeper]

And I'm sorry for going off on a tangent there. If you follow this thread from the beginning you'll see that I've been quite defensive of the lifestyle that specifically "saved my life", admittedly perhaps too much so...

Josh, I wish you the best of luck, the amount of weight you have lost is impressive to say the least. As for the tangent, no worries and no apology neccessary. I guess I was just sick of the debate from spending so much time with family over the holidays. Everyone tells you how great you look, but seems to want to tell you how you are "doing it wrong" despite the results.

[Brett]

I can see how my original post came off as arguementative and I apologize for any upset it may have caused.
As you say, the paleo diet has been expanded over time to include other foods, which suggests it's attempting to expand as the science of what paleolithic people actually ate debunks some of the early claims.....good on them for that. There is a fair bit of evidence to suggest that paleolithic people even ate grains and legumes in certain amounts, when available. I would imagine most paleolithic people were simply opportunists happy to eat whatever was available with little regard to blood sugar issues, obesity or long term health. My issue is less with Cordain himself than the paleo die-hards nutters who insist any type of grain or processed food in a diet is inherently unhealthy and responsible for the obesity epidemic and the multitude of related health issues.
As for the low-carb aspect of the paleo diet, off the top of my head, it's predated by guys like Dr. Mauro Dipasquale, John Parillo, Dan Duchaine, Lyle Macdonald and a few others in the nutrition guru world who's names escape me at the moment. Certainly ketogenic diets have been prescribed for over a century by many doctors, but was seriously set back by the high carb, low fat phase of the 80's and 90's. In addition, many old time bodybuilders used low carb and even ketogenic diets before the low-fat craze. From the 40's through the early 70's ketogenic diets were quite popular with the venice beach boys.
For what it's worth, I personally maintain a lowish carb diet and will drop most carbs when dieting. For my bodytype, low carb diets work the quickest and I feel the best while on them. I went from a high of 260lbs to 200lbs on a low carb diet, so I understand your preference for it. Like yourself, I gained some of it back in the pursuit of strength sports, but now that I have no desire to chase strength gains at all cost, I will likely live out my days in a low carb life, lol.
Again, my issue is less with Cordain and his diet itself, it's with the paleo zealots who insist it's the "only way" to live a healthy life. Pubmed is full of old and recent research that counters the ideas that dairy, legumes, grains and even the devil sugars are inherently unhealthy.

As for the Crossfit zealots, I'm of a similar opinion as you, although likely a little more militant towards most crossfit quacks. As for systems that predate it, I would throw out John Davie's "Renegade Training", which I think Glassman likely took many of his ideas from. He certainly did a better marketing job than Davies.

If the term Paleo diet is marketing nonsense, then Dr. Cordain is sucking at it, as he is the one that coined the phrase. The term has been expanded to include dozens of different types of diets, some focusing on higher carbs like tubers, and some more classic with the "meat, leaves, berries" schtick that ends up being fairly low carb. Paleo might have been a commercial term a decade ago, but today pretty much reflects a varied style of eating that is only unified by the lack of grain, legumes, processed sugar, and artificial flavorings/sweeteners.

I will say the "Primal Diet" advocated by Mark Sisson is very much a marketing scheme, and is the "Johnny Come Lately" - but some people look to flash to find success, and I'm not gonna crap on his success. The guy lives his concepts and is really motivated, but for me he still comes off as a hack. He rebranded the concepts of Paleo/Hunter-Gatherer eating, added some supplements, allowed dairy and some other foods... and called it "Primal".


I'd like to see some of your examples, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just have followed this way of eating off-and-on (finances withstanding) for over a decade and I don't have any clue what you are on about.



Most "old time trainers" that I am familiar with prescribed the "GOMAD" principles (Gallon Of Milk a Day) to gain weight, and the disgusting and unhealthy "Tuna Fast" to lose weight. Dan John's "Meat, Leaves, and Berries" diet was coined after Audette's Neanderthin, and Cordain's "Paleo Diet". As far as long-timers suggesting this diet, I can really only think of Banting's "Letter on Corpulence" and the works of Stephansson as being influential - both using an Ancestral, Hunter-Gatherer-based diet and reporting cured ailments such as diabetes and obesity. Despite training with several real "old time" strength trainers for the last half of my own life, I can't really remember anyone telling me that they used anything anywhere near the paleo diet... but they watched me lose 120lbs following it in 9 months time (they had a bit of envy that I was eating steak, eggs, and tomatoes every morning and having such drastic fat-loss results while still getting stronger).



I've got no love for Crossfit, except the pictures floating around on the net. I try to avoid any fitness zealotry and they seem to breed the most. However, prior to Glassman's concepts, the only people really following this combination of strength, gymnastics, calisthenics, and running were people doing it on their own. Crossfit isn't a system as much as it is a community.

[Joshua]

I loved DiPasquale's work, although much of his major success subjects (Palumbo, Duchaine) involved high steroid use.

I followed Lyle McDonald's RFL diet for awhile. After 3 months or so, although I had lost substantial weight, when I was sick of crapping lava and getting sick constantly so I gave it up. Lyle's response was "eat more fiber" which made matters worse for me, personally. Maybe my physiology was significantly different than others, but yeah... RFL is not a healthy diet, something I attribute to the major lack of fat. To Lyle's defense he has multiple diets he has authored, is very knowledgeable, and has staunchly defended that his RFL is not to be used long-term. Not to mention, unlike other protein-only fasting diets he advocates whole foods. However, the "PSMF" concept I feel is an invitation for yo-yo dieting... so unless you are already thin and just want to see those abs, avoid like the plague.

And now for some thread relevance.

Shortly after my last few posts last year on this thread, my family and I went through a fairly rough financial patch... a combination of poor management of personal funds, family member's untreated addictions going out of control, and a job transition that left me a month without pay, I had to cancel the gym membership, I had to sell off a ton of stuff, and I had to eat meager meals... additionally working 70+ hours a week, out of state, without a kitchen. Although I was eating less than 1500 calories a day (I recorded the intakes as an experiment), I was eating Appalachian-style peasant food... cheap, carb-heavy, etc... (corn, fatback, corn, beans, corn, cornbread, and corn) When starting in this thread, I was about 330lbs, down from 380 in late 2009, again down from 430 back in 2003 (from 2005-2007 I maintained 350lbs as I was competing at the top amateur levels in Florida for Strongman).

I had climbed back up 30lbs, to 362lbs as of late november last year. I'm down now to 345 as of this morning, I have 15 more pounds to go to be "back where I started", but probably won't start doing anything more physical than walking for another 25lbs, just to take it easy on my joints.

My iteration of the way I'm eating now is a hybrid of all that I have learned - some of it might sound like a fad, but it really works well for me.

1. At least 1lb of raw, fresh fruits/vegetables per day. No exceptions. My "shortcut" for this is to put 1/2lb of kale, cranberries, strawberries, blueberries, carrots, spirulina into a blender with water and chug it down in the morning with my bacon and eggs. I no longer cook my veggies eaten with meals... just wash and munch.

2. Achieve a 4:1 or better Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio in my daily diet. This generally helps my mood, joints, heart, and ensures I'm eating enough fatty fish.

3. No matter how many people are having success with a higher-starch "paleo diet", I simply cannot. Perhaps it's due to being obese since my mid-teens and having some insulin-dependance issues, but adding starch to a meal turns off my "I'm Full" signals in the brain and I'll literally eat until I sleep.

4. If generally sedentary, I must eat less than 2300cal/day to lose .5-1lb of weight a day. 45-60% of those calories should come from a balanced ratio of fat... meaning fatty fish, grassfed beef, coconut oil, avocados. If exercising frequently, I can either keep the calories the same and introduce considerably more fruit, or I can keep the intake ratios the same and bump the calories up by about 1000/day.

5. Fast every once in awhile. Conquering hunger is the biggest hurdle for a fatty. If you can say no to hunger for 48 hours, you are winning. Plus, it helps you to look at the whole picture, eating 2000 calories a day for 2 weeks, with 1 24-hour fast, equals an average deficit of 250 cals/day over the course of those 2 weeks. Long-term fasting can damage metabolism, however... so keep it under 1-2 days.

6. SLEEP COMES FIRST! Go to bed early enough, that you can wake without an alarm clock and still get to work on time. Black-out your bedroom, if you can see your hand in front of your face in the middle of the night, it isn't dark enough.

I've acclimated to this over the past 4 weeks, and by going to bed before 10pm I wake up at 5:30-6:00 AM every day, completely refreshed and not having my pulse spike with an alarm (I actually took my waking pulse and noticed a 15bpm difference in waking naturally vs. waking with an alarm clock).

7. Walk more! I'm walking dogs a couple of times a day, walking to the grocery store, and walking on my lunch breaks at work. This helps health, I get sunlight, and I get more time not staring at a glowing box.

[Reverend Graham]

My Deca Ironman training is going well, only 4 and a half months left to get as fit as possible, finished the base training at the end of Dec and started the endurance phase till the end of Feb, then it's just 3 months of beast training till the event, throwing in a double marathon at the end of Feb as a training session.

There will be photos and possibility of a dvd at the end of the race, I will try to popst some of them. Only 3 finished the race last year in the UK, if I can finish I will be the first super vet to finish ( I'm in the 55-60 age group ) in the UK.

As a side issue, I thought this thread was about fitness training, not just about diet ? maybe I got it wrong

Graham

[Joshua]

As a side issue, I thought this thread was about fitness training, not just about diet ? maybe I got it wrong

Graham

Maybe for you thin ironman warrior run types, but for us fatties diet is probably 70% of the equation as opposed to the fit guys that only need to put about 25% into their dinner plate.

Personally I thought it (this thread) was about physical improvement in general. Once the last few pounds come off, I'll be back in the gym (when my body/joints can better handle it). Then, my contributions to this thread will be considerably less one-sided. Heck, I may even start a training log in the Highland games section like Alan H.

[biblemonkey]

So, let's also eat right lads, and try to keep the pints and wee drams to a minimum, as challenging as that may be at times!

I gave up beer completely for at least my first month back on P-90X. I'm already missing my hopped little 12 oz friends. But by gum I'm gonna stick to it!

My Deca Ironman training is going well, only 4 and a half months left to get as fit as possible, finished the base training at the end of Dec and started the endurance phase till the end of Feb, then it's just 3 months of beast training till the event, throwing in a double marathon at the end of Feb as a training session.

There will be photos and possibility of a dvd at the end of the race, I will try to popst some of them. Only 3 finished the race last year in the UK, if I can finish I will be the first super vet to finish ( I'm in the 55-60 age group ) in the UK.

As a side issue, I thought this thread was about fitness training, not just about diet ? maybe I got it wrong

Graham

Awesome!

And the thread is about fitness goals in general. Including dietary goals considering the fuel is what makes the machine go. (;0P
Hugh

[Brett]

Joshua:
It sounds like you have a really good grip on what works for you and I can tell from the few posts here that you're well read on the subject, which is quite refreshing given what I often hear and see from most layfolks (of which I include myself) who claim experience and knowledge in nutrition.

FWIW, I'm much like yourself, having been a child and teen fatty, weight management is a lifelong issue. I'm very similar in that too many starches, even at what should be caloric maintenance will cause the weight to creep up and I also think it's from the years of being overweight as a child affecting insulin resistance and sensitivity issues.

I've done 6 week stints here and there of Lyle's RFL and like yourself, feel like hell on it, while more moderate keto diets work almost as fast for me and I feel so much better, although my girlfriend feels great using RFL and can do so for relatively long periods.

funny enough, I do very much what you do in regards to veggies. I stuff a bunch of mixed greens with a small amount of frozen berry mix into a blender with water and get it over with so I can spend the rest of the day enjoying my eggs, bacon, poultry and meats. One of the things I've been doing lately however, is blending my greens in with a boullion cube and then adding into a low-carb chili recipe with lean ground beef or poultry along with onions, peppers, garlic and my favourite chili spices. This works well in getting my kid to eat his greens.

Lastly, I want to send you my best wishes on your battle. I know how difficult it is for those of us who have battled it all our lives and I sincerely commend you on keeping at it through it's ups and downs. I absolutely hear what you're saying in regards to the hunger issue for fattys. It's reason I prefer low-carb diets as they seem to blunt hunger for me better than any other approach......and I've done them all.

Keep up the great work Joshua and keep posting your progress and experience with your diet. I always find other's insights while dieting very interesting.

I'm two weeks into my CKD now, starting at 250lbs.

[creagdhubh]

I gave up beer completely for at least my first month back on P-90X. I'm already missing my hopped little 12 oz friends. But by gum I'm gonna stick to it!




Awesome!

And the thread is about fitness goals in general. Including dietary goals considering the fuel is what makes the machine go. (;0P
Hugh

I have restricted the consumption of Belhaven Scottish Ale and any single-malt whisky, to specific Scottish-related events, only. If I choose to have a beer with my wife over a weekend, it is Michelob Ultra, and only one or two. Michelob Ultra is just fine for active-types.

Cheers,

[Rab]

Hi rev Graham, sounds like the trainings going well whats the double mara you have planned?
How does the deca work then is it ten IM one after each other ?

Sounds like everyones doing well, keep it up

[LitTrog]

Never had any Michelob, but I will say that Guinness is the finest "light" beer I've ever had. Makes a good recovery drink after P90X, too! (Just trying to mantain the thread.)